Howe To Save Sharks
EPISODE | SPOTIFY | APPLE PODCASTS | YOUTUBE
HOWE TO SAVE SHARKS w/ Brian & Sandy Stewart
SUMMARY
In this episode, the discussion centers on shark conservation and features guests Brian and Sandy Stewart, parents of Rob Stewart, co-founders of Tribute Entertainment Media Group and the Rob Stewart Sharkwater Foundation. The conversation pays tribute to their late son, Rob Stewart, a biologist, activist, and filmmaker dedicated to conservation, exploring his impactful works like 'Sharkwater,' 'Revolution,' and 'Sharkwater Extinction.' These films brought global awareness to issues like shark finning and ocean acidification, influencing policy changes and inspiring conservation efforts. The Stewarts also discuss Rob's passion for wildlife, the influence of his work, and ongoing efforts to protect sharks through initiatives such as the Shark Free campaign, highlighting the critical role sharks play in marine ecosystems and the importance of consumer awareness in conservation.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Howe To: Save Sharks with Sandy & Brian Stewart of Sharkwater
===
[00:00:00] Lauren: Today's conversation is about how to save sharks and our guests are Brian and Sandy Stewart. Brian and Sandy are the co founders of Tribute Entertainment Media Group, a publishing, marketing, and advertising business focused on movie entertainment. They also founded the Rob Stewart Sharkwater Foundation, an organization committed to protecting sharks, our ecosystems, and our oceans.
[00:00:24] Lauren: Now bear with me for a little bit of a longer but important introduction to today's episode. Rob Stewart, Brian and Sandy's son, was a biologist, conservationist, activist, photographer, and filmmaker. Rob dedicated his life to conservation, saying, 'Conservation is the preservation of human life on Earth, and that, above all else, is worth fighting for.
[00:00:43] Lauren: His greatest impact was through his three films, Sharkwater, Revolution, and Sharkwater Extinction, as well as his books and the millions of supporters that carry on his mission worldwide. These films have been awarded more than 150 international awards and viewed by over 130 million people. At 22 years old, he embarked on a four year journey across 12 countries to make his first documentary, Sharkwater, released in 2008.
[00:01:05] Lauren: His inspiration was to show viewers the beauty of sharks, the oceans, and its creatures, so people would love them and work to protect them. Along this journey, he also learned about the devastating practice of shark finning, which is when, disclaimer warning, graphic warning, a shark is brought on board, its fins are cut off, and then the animal is thrown back into the water.
[00:01:22] Lauren: He used his voice through this film to spotlight this issue. Sharkwater went on not only to win international awards, but more importantly, was credited as being the first to bring this issue to light. The exposure sparked the creation of not just conservation groups, but changes in government policies around the world.
[00:01:37] Lauren: Now, I don't want to give away too much from the film, but hopefully this provides context into why we're having this conversation today. In this film, he shares that up to 150 million sharks per year are killed by humans, but researchers estimate that this number could be far closer to 273 million.
[00:01:51] Lauren: Shark populations have dropped 90 percent in 30 years and are at risk of extinction. As an apex predator, this has a devastating impact on larger marine ecosystems. If food webs collapse, this has negative repercussions, not just ecologically, economically, but also impacting overall climate change. His subsequent film, Revolution, released in 2012, spotlighted the catastrophic effects of ocean acidification from carbon emissions.
[00:02:15] Lauren: Now, this is common knowledge, but he was credited as being one of the first to create an impactful feature film bringing this to light as well. His third film, Sharkwater Extinction, was made as a follow up to Sharkwater. While the first resulted in numerous countries banning the practice of shark, quotations, finning, the practice continued through lax enforcement and loopholes in international laws.
[00:02:35] Lauren: This matters because it also meant that shark meat would be repurposed and relabeled into things you will never believe. But we'll get into that in this episode. It would be an understatement to say that Rob dedicated his life to this mission. While filming Sharkwater Extinction in the Florida Keys at 37 years old, he tragically passed in a diving accident.
[00:02:56] Lauren: To honor him and his mission, his loved ones came together to finish the film, including Rob's parents Brian and Sandy Stewart, who brought filmmakers Sutra Gunnarsson and editor Nick Hector on board to complete the film. It premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 7th, 2018. And then began a global theatrical release.
[00:03:14] Lauren: It's been featured at over 200 international film festivals around the world and is now available worldwide on Amazon Prime. His work and that of the entire Sharkwater team has continued to make an impact in this space to this day. This includes, but isn't limited to airlines, hotels, courier services, and theme parks having banned shark fins.
[00:03:33] Lauren: The Chinese government banned shark fin soups at state banquets. The California Driftnet ban was signed in fall 2018. In June 2019, Canada became the first G20 nation to ban the import and export of shark fins, crediting ROMP. Fiji followed closely in July 2019. Mozambique banned commercial fishing of whale sharks, manta rays, or any mobula species in 2021.
[00:03:54] Lauren: In 2022, the U. S. House and Senate passed the Shark Fin Sales Elimination Act and the Drift Gillnet Bill, ending the use of drift nets in U. S. Federal waters. Columbia has banned shark fishing in the country, and the U. K. has banned shark fin trade entirely. And the list goes on. Rob believed that one person could make a difference, and together we can bring positive change.
[00:04:17] Lauren: The Rob Stewart Sharkwater Foundation was created in his honor to pick up the torch and continue his mission. Their fin free and shark free campaigns bring awareness to issues facing sharks and oceans and inspire action. Now on a quick personal note, while I'm obsessed with sharks and this may or may not be new or common knowledge to you if you're listening, Rob has and continues to be an inspiration.
[00:04:42] Lauren: I remember when I was a young girl, and when this film came out, Rob showcased and led by example of how storytelling not only has the impact to shine a light on issues we care about. But to also fuel tangible change and a lasting impact. I cannot recommend enough checking out these films, his work, and who he was as an incredible human.
[00:05:10] Lauren: Without further ado, this is How to Save Sharks with Brian and Sandy Stewart.
Introduction
---
[00:05:16] Lauren: Thank you, both of you, for taking the time to share all this information today. You are both a tremendous wealth of knowledge and we really appreciate you being here today and for all the work that you do in shark conservation and ocean conservation in general.
Rob's Early Life and Passion for Nature
---
[00:05:32] Lauren: So first and foremost, if you could both share not only your journey to shark conservation, Rob's journey, and how everything Sharkwater came to be.
[00:05:43] Brian: may as well start it. It goes back long time.
[00:05:46] Sandy: Oh, we used to travel a lot when the kids were little. We always traveled a lot and we took them to exotic places, during March break and after Christmas every year, and sometimes through the summer and Rob just developed a wonderful love of everything nature.
[00:06:04] Sandy: And we'd get out of the car at a hotel and two seconds later, this little two or three year old would be climbing into the koi pond, or he'd be catching a lizard in the bushes. And he just continued with that his entire life. We always considered ourselves conservationists, nothing to the level that Rob took it to.
[00:06:22] Sandy: But swimming in the Caribbean, he saw his first shark and he was just dying to go diving after that. He'd be in the water every day catching whatever crab or. Fish would come close enough for him to get to.
[00:06:34] Brian: Yeah. He had more pets after these trips than we, then we really want to talk about.
[00:06:38] Brian: He was keeping them a little, find plastic containers and keep them in the hotel room. He brought a tortoise into what we were on a ground for once. He brought a tortoise in to be our day pet. He would catch it. He had no fear of the wild. He just embraced it.
[00:06:52] Sandy: And the weirder and, the uglier they were, the more fun they were.
[00:06:57] Sandy: He obviously liked the cute cuddly things too. We had fostered, cats and kittens when he was young as well. So and we had three cats, a dog, various pets, a guinea pig. What else did we have?
[00:07:09] Brian: Until Rob started getting into the exotic cats and that became snakes and giant iguanas and Komodo, not a Komodo dragon, but something a smaller version.
[00:07:18] Lauren: And those are the animals that are almost underappreciated, right? And I find that's similar with sharks where people often, at least when I express, like what animal are you passionate about? You're like sharks. And people are like, why,
[00:07:30] Lauren: What about puppies? What about kittens?
[00:07:31] Lauren: , where do I start with why I'm passionate about sharks?
[00:07:34] Sandy: Perception is everything, and the Jaws perception of sharks that when that movie was released just continued, and people see them as huge, giant monsters. But the perception is changing.
[00:07:45] Brian: Yes, it is changing. Ironically, even to this day, someone plays a theme from Jaws and it brings back these stark memories of, I can't go in the water.
[00:07:53] Brian: People wouldn't go in lakes or rivers. People were afraid to get, go underwater in their bathtub for Christ's sake. It just became insane. And I think that level of fear really permeated society to the point that people did not have any appreciation for who what sharks were and how valuable they were to all of us and to keeping the ocean .
[00:08:10] Sandy: The perception is changing. You can't go into a kid's clothing store these days without finding a million t shirts and. Sandals and shorts that
[00:08:18] Brian: hats and,
[00:08:19] Sandy: they've got sharks all over them. So
[00:08:21] Brian: I think rob is a big part in that. It's one of his legacies that In that first movie where he's seen hugging the shark and swimming with sharks. I think that Started a definite trend towards people appreciating them
[00:08:33] Lauren: my mom was shocked when I said I'm passionate about sharks. I want to go diving with sharks. So I can only imagine what was that conversation between you and Rob? Not only when it came to diving with sharks, but even saying Nope, this is the film I want to set out and make.
[00:08:48] Sandy: He was just dying to dive with sharks, but it was a gradual transition because, remember, we're down swimming in the oceans every year. So it just got to be a normal transition, but he pestered us endlessly to take him out diving. And at that time, you couldn't get a PADI certification until you were 13 years old.
[00:09:06] Sandy: And we were down in Mexico the year before and did one of these resort dive courses where they put you in the pool for about 5 minutes. And then you're good enough to go in the boat. And we did that. It was a little bit terrifying. But he was just absolutely thrilled. He's, he was always like the first one, in the water off the boat and the last one.
[00:09:26] Brian: Yeah. His passion for diving was just, it let him explore a world that he had wanted to explore. With much greater depth and ability than he had before that. And once he became a diver, he spent more time probably underwater when he was traveling than he did above water. It was just one of those things. He just wouldn't stop.
[00:09:44] Sandy: When he finally got to be 13 year old, I got a dive instructor that did the whole family. And of course, Rob is just absolutely thrilled. Brian and Alex, his sister, not so much. But everybody participated and we did this intense weekend dive experience. And then they did deep water dives, down south, where there's more interesting creatures and the visibility is better and it's warmer.
The Making of Sharkwater
---
[00:10:10] Lauren: How did the film come to be? When I was a kid, I found out about shark finning and was shocked and horrified like many other people are when they find out about shark finning for the first time then, Sharkwater, the film was released What was the transition from saying, , we are passionate about sharks, discovering this issue, and then actually becoming a leading global voice and activist for this cause.
[00:10:34] Lauren: And I do want to celebrate not just Rob, but the entire Sharkwater team and both of you and your entire family for relentlessly pursuing this mission.
[00:10:43] Sandy: He developed a passion for taking pictures and took his camera everywhere. And it started out with some, smaller, less expensive, disposable camera that went into the ocean.
[00:10:54] Sandy: But he took that and ran with it. And he was working with Canadian Wildlife Magazine and their kids magazines and doing outdoor nature shoots.
[00:11:02] Sandy: And people started hiring him. This went on through university. He was going all over the world on photo shoots into the most exotic places. His passion was still underwater, but a lot of his shooting was actually above the water. Many awards for that. And when he finished university he was invited to come along with Sea Shepherd boat that was going down to save sharks
[00:11:24] Sandy: actually I have to back up for a second on one of his trips where he was sent to the Galapagos islands before anybody knew anything, he saw the shark finning going on with miles and miles of baited hooks. And why were they trying to kill sharks? And why did they want the shark fins? And once he found out, he was absolutely horrified, and just vowed that he was going to change this, and came back and did all sorts of stories, which he gave away for free, just to get the messaging out there.
[00:11:54] Sandy: Remember he was paid to do stories and paid to do photography, but he gave these away, and it didn't have the impact. When he got to graduating from university, He was invited on the Sea Shepherd boat down to the Galapagos Islands in Costa Rica to save sharks from shark finning.
[00:12:10] Brian: Yeah. And then what he found when he went down there, he found miles and miles of long lines with dead, dying sharks all along the lines, hundreds of sharks. This just horrified him. But fortunately, before he went, he was shooting digital cameras, the typical Nikon digital camera. So they were being introduced quite heavily.
[00:12:30] Brian: And they were amazing. You take as many shots as you want, the ones you need. And then we discovered through some contacts that there, they had a brand new Panasonic HD video camera that would also be allow you to freeze frame the shot so you can take the video and then choose the segment you want and freeze frame it.
[00:12:47] Brian: So we talked about that and we. They ended up renting this camera for him, which was the and then he found a guy in Los angeles to make a house he could take an underwater and that was really what set rob off his filmmaking and on the plane down He wrote a book and how to make a movie and stuff like this because he had no idea what he was going to end up Doing but the footage that they shot and then the footage that was that they you know They were there was attempted arresting the Paul Watson and Rob and on attempted murder charges, because they rammed a boat, and it's not really, they didn't ram the boat ran him into them, and it was all this convoluted story that's been done in a couple movies now.
[00:13:23] Brian: And reality was, Rob came back to this footage and decided He really had to tell a story that would reach the masses. And he knew because our background in the film industry, he knew movies have a huge impact if they can be seen by people. And the reality is he set out, we had some contacts he sat with.
[00:13:40] Brian: So it wasn't Sandy and I said, go do it. He met with some people in the film industry that we happen to know. And they sat back and he says, he's really got something here. He has to finish this movie.
[00:13:49] Sandy: But before that, when he first came back, he wanted to do a beautiful shark documentary showing people how gentle and lovely and intelligent these animals are.
[00:13:58] Sandy: And nobody wanted to, fund a first time filmmaker or someone that did a beautiful shark film because they're really Jaws like creatures. So he left and went all over the world, staying with friends, shooting with other cinematographers. And came back with just this fabulous footage that he put together as Sharkwater.
[00:14:19] Sandy: And we're in the film industry as well, but not the creative side. He did this movie entirely by himself. I think he did, I don't know, 80 different cuts of it. And each time, putting more of the story part into it. Not just the hours of the beautiful sharks underwater.
[00:14:37] Brian: Yeah, and I think the success of the film was really, it opened the eyes to so many people around the world that did not know shark finning was taking place, did not know the sheer numbers. In those days, the numbers were something around 75 million or 73 million was the number that Rob introduced in Sharkwater. And that number has stuck for years, but now it's exploded over 150 million a year they're being taken. And that's probably a much smaller number than the reality because they're expecting it could be 250, 300 million sharks that have disappeared from the world's oceans.
[00:15:05] Brian: And there aren't that many left. The reality is that we're doomed if we don't do something about this very quickly.
[00:15:11] Lauren: To your point about how great movies can have great impact and Sharkwater, the first Sharkwater, and please correct me on my numbers here, that changed policies in over 90 countries around the world relating to
[00:15:27] Lauren: Finning.
[00:15:28] Sandy: That's right. And it created hundreds and hundreds of organizations focused on saving sharks. All of the major conservation groups created shark silos because of that film. It just had an enormous impact. Public policy changed everywhere. The Chinese government doesn't serve shark fin soup at their banquets anymore. The awareness from that film was just enormous. 125 million people saw that.
[00:15:55] Brian: And I think that the big advantage that once they got the momentum behind them, he was being asked to go and speak because of his passion for it, to speak in different places and universities and schools and tech conferences and so on.
[00:16:07] Brian: And that gave him a voice to take with them. And the movie was the backdrop to his voice as he extended his reach. And I think that was one of the great things that made him confident about continuing down that path of becoming a filmmaker. And I think that's one of the things that was so great about it was seeing him grow as a filmmaker after having no training whatsoever, just reading a book on how to make a movie
[00:16:27] Brian: in that movie he did, he shot the whole thing. He edited the whole thing. He did voiceover. He did all the color. He chose the music and hired the music composer who eventually became a very close friend and has gone on to do a number of movies in the environmental world. It's just, it was a real passion project.
[00:16:44] Sandy: But he would sit there in the studio because he knew what color the underwater water would look like. So he was involved in all aspects of it and editing. And he sat with the music composer because, this is the feeling I want through this scene
[00:16:59] Lauren: it blows my mind. How long it's been since Sharkwater released, how many organizations have popped up, how many policies have been changed, but still how far there is to go.
The Importance of Sharks and Conservation Efforts
---
[00:17:12] Lauren: And, before I, I'm really passionate about wanting to dive into the, what needs to change part of this conversation, but would love to lay the backdrop for people of. Why should we care, especially for so many people living in areas where either maybe they've been in fear of sharks because they just don't live in those environments and that the whole Jaws fallacy still exists in their minds, or you live in a city that you're nowhere near an ocean and you don't realize how important these creatures are, not just to our ocean, but our entire stability of our planet. As experts in this, paint that picture for people of why we need to care.
[00:17:50] Sandy: Sharks are really important to the oceans. They're a keystone species. And they've been there for 450 million years. So everything that's involved in the oceans and all life when I started in the oceans, they've evolved under sharks being the top predator on our planet. And if you take the top predator out of any kind of environment the ripple effect that it has on that ecosystem, that environment can be catastrophic.
[00:18:17] Sandy: Sharks in the oceans on reefs keep reef safe. They take out Invasive species if they're gone, what happens is the fish underneath them explode. Those fish eat, the smaller fish all the way down the line to the plankton. What's really important for the, our Earth is the oceans because they get a 60 percent of our oxygen.
[00:18:36] Sandy: They absorb most of our heat. They absorb 30 percent of our carbon gases.
[00:18:41] Sandy: We can't live, on the top side of the world without the oceans. They're just so important and sharks manage that ecosystem. There's coastal bays and communities, all over the world where there's seagrasses, and turtles feed their seals feed there.
[00:18:59] Sandy: They host shellfish and oysters. And if you take the sharks out of that the turtles, the sea lions explode, feed on the seagrass. The shellfish die off, and then you've got a bay where there's nothing that lives there. So that you're not just taking one animal out of an ecosystem, you take all of the animals out of the ecosystem when you take a predator out in some cases, and it just has a catastrophic influence.
[00:19:22] Sandy: So they're just really important.
[00:19:23] Brian: And one of the key things now is in the, we're finding, and this is one of the heartbreaking elements, is we're finding that they're now taking baby hammerheads and using them as fake scallops. They just cut them into slices and pass them off as scallops because a scallop is more, worth more money in the market.
[00:19:40] Sandy: So many of the large sharks are gone that the only ones left are the babies. And it's easy to fish out a nursery to. You just put in gillnets and, you can wipe out the entire seasons, babies, in a matter of weeks. In the coastal communities, it's really important.
[00:19:56] Sandy: Rob never wanted the coastal communities to stop fishing if you're fishing for your livelihood to feed your family.
[00:20:03] Brian: Yeah, we're facing extinction the the oceanic white tip is going to be extinct probably within five five years its populations have dwindled by 99% there's other sharks like the blue sharks have been devastated off the you know You West coast of Africa has been wiped out of blue sharks.
[00:20:19] Brian: Rob was there shooting on the Canary Islands and all the sharks are gone. They've been gone for years.
[00:20:25] Sandy: The Bahamas banned shark fishing, I don't know, a number of years ago. And now shark tourism is such an enormous value to their economy, over 200 million dollars. Sharks are actually worth a lot more alive than they are dead.
[00:20:39] Sandy: I think the value of a shark is something over 250, 000 a year just with the ecotourism that it brings in. If these are one off spots, we need to do more of that all over the world.
[00:20:53] Sandy: 90 percent of the sharks in the reefs and warm waters are now gone. And 90 percent of the large sharks are gone too. And that's an enormous amount. Everything, every living thin thing on the planet stores carbon in their bodies. So when you take all of these wildlife out of the ocean, the large tunas and the large sharks all of that carbon gets released in the environment. So they're actually helping climate change by keeping the oceans clean, by not releasing the carbon into the atmosphere by keeping the sea grasses safe, because they, the predators that eat the sea grass. They're super valuable and they're cute and lovable and intelligent.
[00:21:32] Lauren: If you don't care about sharks, You probably care about the cute little sea turtles and the cute little dolphins and whales and things like that. But they all play a part with one another in these ecosystems, and especially I love that you brought up the seagrass if our seagrass is gone, that's a huge opportunity for carbon capture. Naturally occurring on our planet
[00:21:52] Lauren: So many places have adopted different shark finning bans and policies and I would love to give you guys a huge shoutout right now where you are the reason policies are in place in Canada and that Canada is the first G20 country to ban shark finning and the and export of it.
[00:22:11] Sandy: We're super proud of that win. And it's, as you say, the first G20 country, the U S actually got close last year the Shark Fin Sales Elimination passed through the House at the end of 2019, and it was supposed to go through the Senate.
[00:22:27] Brian: The research is hands down unanimous. Everybody wants something done about this. The reality is politicians who are influenced by people with deep pockets. Make decisions that aren't really the best interest of the, of their, their public and I think what happens in Florida for example, riveo is help draft or help put through legislation. This is a slight shark fin ban, but not really.
[00:22:50] Brian: The guys who's currently shark finning can continue to do what they're going to do is stop import, stop allowing imports to go through Miami, which is what Center Hub for Distribution From the Caribbean and Costa Rican countries like that.
[00:23:02] Sandy: That's gone through now. Yeah. Still when you're doing trans shipments through other countries and you've got a huge shipment that goes through Miami, they caught a huge one last year worth millions and millions of dollars. But those are hard to find sometimes, opening up a shipping container that's coming in on a huge shipping vessel.
[00:23:21] Brian: You can see when you see the Suez Canal and the boat that blocked the Suez Canal recently, you imagine trying to find a container of shark in that. And there are freezer containers that keep the shark bodies frozen, the shark fins frozen, and so on.
[00:23:33] Brian: Sorting through that and sorting through the illegal paperwork of the Saw and Sharkwater Extinction, people label it one thing and something else, and that happens all the time in the shark industry.
[00:23:42] Brian: So there's no economic comparison between what could be beneficial for the state of Florida versus what a few fishermen need as income, which is terrible.
[00:23:52] Lauren: And it's interesting with shark tourism, because, of course, there are so many sharks that actually cast and release is not healthy for them either.
[00:24:00] Brian: There's a fallacy in the shark catch and release reality is a hammerhead shark on a hook will die whether you cut them off or not. They don't survive. They can't take the stress. So we see that numerous times. And, they drag him up on the beach, take the hook out, take a picture and let him go. He'll be dead with probably in an hour.
[00:24:19] Brian: There's a lot of people that believe catch and release does work. It really doesn't for a number of species of sharks. So that's one of those things that we have to educate people about. The more people know about it, the more they realize the stress they put these animals under.
[00:24:31] Brian: It's so extensive, to be dragged behind a boat on a, with a hook in your mouth they can't handle it. There's a whole bunch of reasons why we should be leaving sharks alone and let them get healthy, let them rebound. The best thing we could possibly do is stop fishing everything for 10 years.
[00:24:45] Brian: Give the oceans a chance to rebound, and
[00:24:47] Sandy: But definitely for sharks, the commercial fishing vessels that are out there targeting, schools of sharks and millions of tunas, that's the most damaging thing.
[00:24:58] Sandy: Rob started working with the Turks and Caicos in 2014 to develop a marine park in that area. And they don't really fish sharks down there to eat.
[00:25:06] Sandy: And shark finning wasn't really a thing there and it's still not. But set up a marine park and a marine corridor and we're working with Turks and Caicos as well as Richards Branson's BVI Unite in the Virgin Islands to create a corridor that goes all the way through the Caribbean. Bahamas all the way south. So that they don't end up, crisscrossing out of protected marine parks and getting scooped up. Trinidad is almost like a port that you would see in Asia, the number of sharks that go in and out of there.
[00:25:35] Brian: And a lot of the Chinese fishing vessels, the super sized ones, come in there and pick up the fish to take them to China, because China basically bought the port in Trinidad. It lent money to the government, and the payoff was they would control the rights to the port, which has allowed them to basically do whatever they want.
[00:25:54] Brian: So that's a major problem for all of the Caribbean.
[00:25:57] Lauren: I'm going to be honest here that can sometimes feel a little hopeless and we can't feel hopeless what can consumers be doing and what do we do about, we might have protected marine reserves and a corridor, but then there's only so much you can do in domestic waters, but then you have the international waters issue.
[00:26:14] Brian: No one regulates international waters. There's no UN body that regulates the waters. What goes on outside the territorial boundaries of each country is the wild west.
[00:26:22] Brian: There's no regulations. There's no controls. There's no monitors. There's no policing.
[00:26:26] Sandy: UN is working on some kind of an international agreement that It seems to be years away and it'll be blocked by
[00:26:34] Brian: China and Russia and other countries that don't want to see an end to this kind of wild west in the open ocean.
[00:26:41] Brian: Your reality is you have to somehow stop the demand and stopping the demand is maybe the next generation, the young people looking at how their parents live and what they're consuming. Shark fin soup is going down in countries around the world and now all of a sudden it's exploded in places like Malaysia and Thailand.
The Rising Demand for Shark Products
---
[00:27:00] Sandy: So huge populations in Asia. And even though, percentage wise maybe less people are using, doing the shark fin soup at weddings. There's so many more people in the middle class that now have the money to afford that. The demand is still really high. I think one of the best things that people can do is bring awareness to the issue.
[00:27:19] Brian: It's an environmental issue. It's an issue about man's survival on this planet. If the oceans go down, we go down afterwards. And if anybody doubts that, then they're basically ignorant of science and ignorant of nature and ignorant of how we live on this earth. And I think ignorance is no excuse anymore.
Consumer Awareness and Responsibility
---
[00:27:36] Brian: We're making people aware. They should be aware of the consequences of their actions.
[00:27:41] Brian: And the best they can do is be an aware consumer. Talk about it. Look at how you live your life. And as Rob would say, so many times, you make choices with your dollar every day you spend one. And every time you spend a dollar, are you spending it in the root of conservation and environmental protection, or are you spending it for.
[00:27:59] Brian: Devastation and destruction.
[00:28:00] Brian: There's small steps you can make, but just start thinking a little bit more how you spend your money. And certainly as we've started this whole Shark Tree initiative in cosmetics, it comes down to this. Maybe look at your cosmetic purchases. If you see the word squalene, second guess that decision to purchase it.
[00:28:17] Brian: If it is shark squalene, don't purchase it.
[00:28:19] Sandy: Or if you don't know, don't purchase it. Because most squalene that you see in cosmetics is actually coming from shark liver. People fish sharks for two reasons. It's for their fins, or it's for their shark liver.
[00:28:32] Sandy: And 90 percent of the shark liver that's fished out there goes into the cosmetics industry.
[00:28:38] Sandy: So if you see squalene on a label and you don't know it's a vegetable based product just don't buy it.
[00:28:44] Brian: Move on.
[00:28:45] Sandy: And the rest of the sharks sadly go into byproducts. Fertilizer, fish food pellets cat foods.
[00:28:52] Brian: Although you should also be aware, like I read recently, that shark meat is turning up.
[00:28:59] Brian: The imitation crab you find in restaurants, or you find in grocery stores when you go to buy crab, you'll see imitation crab. That imitation crab is shark.
[00:29:08] Sandy: Can be shark. Yes.
[00:29:09] Brian: In most cases nowadays. But
[00:29:11] Sandy: people serve, shark and fish and chips and it's called rock salmon or flake and white fish, ocean white fish.
The Impact of Bycatch and Mislabeled Seafood
---
[00:29:19] Sandy: And they found that somewhere between 60 and 80 percent of the fish that you buy out there is actually mislabeled. And in some cases, countries, Those labels have been out there for
[00:29:30] Sandy: !They're acceptable.
[00:29:31] Brian: 50 to 60% of all fish being labeled for retail sale is mislabeled.
[00:29:37] Sandy: And the stuff that you buy in restaurants, it's mislabeled.
[00:29:40] Brian: Yeah. There, there's the study
[00:29:42] Sandy: after study.
[00:29:43] Brian: You can't buy orange ee anymore. It doesn't exist really. It's not the, and there are so many species that have been fished out that now they're replacing with something that might look the same. People get used to, that's what I'm saying about the imitation, scallops and imitation crab where there's so many others.
[00:29:58] Brian: You know if you buy fish and chips on the street in the UK anywhere or in Germany or in Spain You're going to be getting shark. It's shark and chips
[00:30:06] Sandy: And when you're buying tacos on the beach in Baja or California or LA
[00:30:11] Brian: you're getting shark
[00:30:12] Sandy: You're getting shark meat as well
[00:30:13] Sandy: you want a sustainable fishery, and if you've got that ratio of bycatch, it's not, one of the things we're working on is the California driftnets. In 2018, California banned driftnet fishing, but the waters just outside of California waters. Trump veto that. Just before he left office so that's back on the table. The California group instantly put it back into the legislation. So it'll go through again. But those are huge nets that, sink hundreds of feet below the water. And they catch whales and dolphins and sharks and birds and
[00:30:44] Brian: All in the name of trying to catch swordfish.
[00:30:46] Brian: The average, I think the average set for every swordfish they get, they kill between 30 and 40 other species.
[00:30:52] Lauren: For people who don't know what bycatch means,
[00:30:55] Brian: if they really are interested, will see it. And it would be devastating to see this footage of things being brought up and then, sliced apart and thrown back in the water because it wasn't the catch they wanted. But this happens every day in the tune of millions of species.
[00:31:08] Brian: Every millions of creatures every day are being destroyed and thrown back. And that's the kind of this industrialized fishing has got to stop. The ocean can't sustain it, which is not viable, but nothing can be done about it because there's no rules or regulations until people and consumers stop buying the stuff.
[00:31:26] Brian: The demand will always continue and, as Sandy said, the exploding populations in some countries that are coming into more money and more wealth and are part of the middle class are wanting all these things.
[00:31:35] Lauren: I want to backtrack to what you mentioned about shark free, because for people who don't know squalene as an ingredient , if your products contain it, they should say a hundred percent plant derived squalene or squalene on the label. And if it doesn't say that, please don't buy it. So these are the little pieces of education that if people don't realize, so many moisturizers, fillers lipstick products, suntan lotion, you could be putting shark on your face.
[00:31:58] Sandy: So we're working this year and the last couple of years with the cosmetics associations around the world in Canada and in the U S and in the European union to bring awareness to this issue.
[00:32:10] Sandy: You have no idea how many people inside the cosmetics industry itself don't know that squalene actually comes from sharks. And there's a consumer side to this as well. We want people reading labels, that's one of the biggest things that you can do and you can find squalene in sunscreen, lip balms, lipstick.
[00:32:29] Sandy: It's virtually everywhere. There's bigger companies that decided earlier on, at some point after Sharkwater, not to use shark squalene, Unilever, L'Oreal, Gerstorf, and there's all sorts of vegan cosmetic companies out there, that. Are environmentally conscious, less cosmetics. There's be an educated consumer and you'll have a huge impact.
[00:32:52] Brian: I think reality is the next generation can make a huge difference if they think and become an educated consumer and that comes down to buying lipsticks or your pet food, where we found.
[00:33:03] Brian: 50 percent of the wet cat food we tested contained shark. So if you're feeding your cat, you could be feeding your cat shark as well. When did nature ever decide cats could eat shark? This just doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. The trout pellets, they're feeding to trouts in trout ponds and in fish farming.
[00:33:23] Brian: Let's get shark out of all these products. And that's really what Shark Free's ultimate goal will be. We have a certification process we're implementing
[00:33:30] Brian: the first layer is obviously cosmetics, where we have a lot of support right now to make this happen worldwide. And I think that's the really where we're going to call upon consumers to be our backbenchers to say, yeah, we're checking, we're looking, we're watching the labels and they'll appreciate the shark free label.
[00:33:45] Brian: I trust this company now, and we hope that becomes part of their marketing strategies. These major companies and other companies that are on, they're looking at how they're producing their product. If they can say they're shark free, consumers will start to notice that. And I think that's going to help all of us.
[00:33:59] Lauren: A question for you both then when it comes to trusting labels, you are working on shark free with the best intentions.
[00:34:06] Lauren: How do you go about labeling products like this and monitoring to make sure that companies continue to adhere to these standards over time.
[00:34:15] Sandy: There'll be actual testing at several levels, including DNA. So we'll know for sure if your product has shark squalene in it. And then it'll be up to the individual companies to go back through their supply chains and make sure that through their supply chains they mandate that if they're using squalene they're not using shark squalene.
[00:34:35] Sandy: Olive oil as a synthetic is readily available. Actually, it's a natural product, olive oil squalene, and it's a synthetic made out of sugarcane too. This is very specific.
[00:34:45] Brian: Yeah, so we can do that, and I think the same thing will hold true. We will not just accept someone's word for it. I think there are various organizations that have used that promise to be good, so to speak. We don't believe that is going to be the mantra that we're going to be going by. We're going to verify that there are being good. They are following the guidelines. Shark free is going to be a labeling that we will ensure will continue to be tested.
[00:35:10] Sandy: And the industry wants this themselves.
[00:35:12] Brian: Which is amazing. And I think it's it tells you an awful lot about people who realize then there is the right way to do things.
[00:35:17] Sandy: I think it should be just a good corporate
[00:35:20] Brian: hmm.
[00:35:20] Sandy: no matter who you are, not to engage in the trade of endangered species. Whether they're sharks or whether they're plants that are the amazon or it's out of the woods
[00:35:31] Brian: You can volunteer. You can volunteer. You can not eat in restaurants that serve shark fin soup. You can turn your away from restaurants that continue to serve unknown species of product. When you go to a restaurant and you reorder your fish and chips, ask them what kind of fish they've used. Ask them how they know that's a certain fish. And a lot of them will not know. Even the restaurateurs don't have any idea that what they've ordered as, Oceanic whitefish is actually shark that they have no idea what these, they're not taught this stuff.
[00:35:59] Sandy: And don't don't eat or order farmed fish.
[00:36:03] Sandy: It takes five pounds of regular fish to provide those fish food pellets for farmed fish. It's a very destructive form of fishing. And the infections that go on in those fish farms are disgusting. Giant leeches that attach
[00:36:18] Lauren: Oh, yeah.. , Paul Nicklen did a series where he snuck into some of the fish farms out in BC. It can be an uncomfortable conversation by asking that.
[00:36:27] Sandy: There's a movement within the fishing industry and some of the larger grocery stores are now demanding this as well, where you track the fish down to, where it was caught. So you're not just buying a load of something. Some of the grocery stores are doing just a fantastic job as, only selling what they are proving to themselves as being a sustainable species of fish.
[00:36:48] Lauren: Are there any you recommend then? Specific grocery stores?
[00:36:52] Sandy: I would recommend Loblaws in Canada absolutely, and Sobeys in Canada. And in the U. S. And you have to be careful lots of products are organic. If you're buying a fertilizer and you're thinking, great, I'm buying an organic fertilizer, you gotta read the label because maybe it's just minced, fish parts that they've used.
[00:37:13] Sandy: Shark is super high in mercury and the FDA in the U S if you're buying shark steak somewhere has a warning label on it that, women of childbearing age and children should not be eating that because mercury can really damage your brain development.
[00:37:27] Sandy: And the same thing is true of tuna. You'll see it on the tuna fish cans in Canada.
[00:37:32] Brian: Yeah. It's one of those things that, you know, despite all the issues we need to protect sharks from the environment. It's now detrimental to your health to be consuming shark. And if you let me, some of the countries that the highest consumption of shark is in Brazil, Spain, and Italy, which most people wouldn't realize, and the question now we've talked to some scientists about saying, is there a, Disproportionate percentage of, mercury poisoning in consumers in those countries because the amount of shark they eat.
[00:38:01] Sandy: , when Rob came to us and said he was doing Sharkwater extinction. A follow up to Sharkwater and I was surprised. I looked at him and I said, what about revolution?
[00:38:10] Sandy: Revolution was about ocean acidification, killing all of the oceans. Isn't that more serious? And he said, yes, but sharks don't have that much time. By the time we figure out the ocean issues, they'll be gone. So we really need to do something quickly.
[00:38:25] Brian: If Rob's numbers are right by the time, but, it's been four and a half years since he was, he passed. You're talking about almost a billion sharks in that period of time since he, was last making the movie. That's just too many of any species.
[00:38:38] Brian: I can't imagine a billion of anything. If you want to put it, you can't put a billion sharks on a football field. You can't put a billion sharks up anywhere and realize the sheer quantity of sharks that have been devastated. And it's been going on like this for years and years. So the reality is we need to do something about it.
[00:38:54] Brian: We need to become more aggressive, in some ways. And more important because education for this is everything people just don't know but
[00:39:03] Sandy: we can't give up and we can't lose hope I believe that We could all do this together Young people kids would be a big part of it So spreading the awareness to begin with that.
[00:39:13] Sandy: There's an issue with overfishing and sharks and shark finning and shark livering More people that know about that the more people will start reading labels
[00:39:21] Brian: yeah, it's actually a lot of fun when we do screens and we do Q& A's afterwards, 99 percent of the time the first question for the audience is, how do I tell if , my lipstick's got squalene in it? And the reality is they learn about it and I'm sure they go home and check their suntan lotions and I think they check their products and they start second guessing it, which is great.
[00:39:41] Sandy: So overall it is hard for a consumer in some cases. With cosmetics, it's very clear. It's squalene or squalene. Whether it comes from a vegetable source or a shark source, and it's usually sharks, so avoid it unless you know for sure. If it's in cat food, if you have sharks in cat food, it's just ocean whitefish, that is legally what it's allowed to be called.
[00:40:04] Sandy: It is, an ocean whitefish. And it's just a byproduct of the shark finning or the shark livering industry. When you get it in restaurants, flake or rock salmon, it's You know all sorts of different names that have become common within the fish and chips restaurant industry So they're legally out there.
[00:40:21] Sandy: You really have to be an educated consumer
[00:40:24] Lauren: And the Sharkwater website has a full list of this. I'm going to include the link in the show notes, but for people to visit the page please go to Sharkwater's website, look up the Sharkfree page and read this list. If you question anything, you can always go back to it. You thankfully have created this resource for people. Is there anywhere else or anything we haven't talked about in this conversation?
[00:40:48] Brian: It's tough to touch on everything but I think the most important thing is You know, just let people know, I think what you're doing, even by talking to us about this, and the people you reach out to if every one of those people becomes slightly impassioned to get involved in some way, and they talk to ten more people, it will snowball.
[00:41:05] Brian: People will become more aware. Watch the movies. Watch Sharkwater Extinction, Seaspiracy, and other movies like this. Chasing Coral, there's some great movies out there. One of the ironies is with the movie the Cove did so well. It won an Academy War, but the problem was worse today than it was when they shot the movie.
[00:41:22] Sandy: Still, it didn't have an impact,
[00:41:24] Brian: didn't have any change at all in saving Dolphins,
[00:41:27] Sandy: which is sad. The world is horrified, but it hasn't had an impact yet.
[00:41:32] Brian: Yeah.
[00:41:32] Sandy: I have a request for you and some of your viewers. Yes. If you have a, if you work for a cosmetic company and you know your products.
[00:41:41] Sandy: If you do have squalene in there and you're just not sure we'll test it for you. We'll test it at no cost. And we'll come back and tell you what's in it on a confidential basis and then it'll be your choice as to how you handle it.
[00:41:54] Lauren: Absolutely. Thank you both so much. I know this conversation is one we're going to continue to have and please, whoever's listening, don't let this one ride off as another entertainment episode. You can truly have an impact here.
[00:42:09] Sandy: Absolutely.
[00:42:11] Brian: Thank you for you're doing because you're taking what you're good at and taking what you're passionate about and you're putting it together. It's great change. That's an amazing feat and congratulations.
[00:42:21] Lauren: Thank you for listening to today's episode. To learn more about Sharkwater's mission, the team, and Rob, head on over to sharkwater.com sharkwater. Extinction is available for streaming on Crave in Canada and on Amazon worldwide. To learn more or to join the sharkfree campaign, head on over to sharkfree.com If you'd like to see if your cosmetics are certified Shark Free by the team, head on over to sharkfree.com/cosmetics Thank you for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode of Howe To
